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Post by Sighthound Fan on Dec 9, 2005 22:17:20 GMT
I found this earlier... www.greyhoundaction.co.ukSick images, made me cry, but it really gets the message across, think I might use some of them on a new campaign
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robbo
Junior Gery
silver race dreamer
Posts: 71
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Post by robbo on Dec 10, 2005 12:08:00 GMT
Disturbing stuff alright. Thank God, most owners/trainers aren't like that (in my experience)
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Post by Sighthound Fan on Dec 10, 2005 12:42:16 GMT
Mmm. I can't say I've ever come across anything like that. The worst I've seen was two Lurchers thrown over the rescue center's fence in the night, skinny as anything, took us 3-4 days for them to let us near them, they were so terrified they were growling and barking, one looked exactly like my Lenny, which was odd as he was left tied up to the same rescue center's fence in the same state He got rehomed first (Oliver, after about 9 months in the center), my fav was Stan though, he looked like an Azawakh but pure red, aparently I was the only person he ever warmed too, he used to jump up at me and he'd play with me and run around like a loony, with everyone else aparently he just sulked and mooched around! He got rehomed last week, after a year and 2 months in the center, went to a nice man and seems to have settled in great, he said I could come and see him whenever I want , I miss him though
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robbo
Junior Gery
silver race dreamer
Posts: 71
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Post by robbo on Dec 13, 2005 20:06:46 GMT
Unfortunately it's a much broader problem than that - horses shot with arrows, cats in microwaves or tumble dryers, child abuse - yet we have acres of flowers and teddy bears when a 'celeb' dies, or people are 'devestated' because their footy team has lost. Sorry, I'll get my coat
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Post by Sighthound Fan on Dec 14, 2005 18:37:06 GMT
I know i know. It's amazing what people do to the world that's around them. Do they just not care?
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robbo
Junior Gery
silver race dreamer
Posts: 71
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Post by robbo on Dec 18, 2005 17:23:27 GMT
Yes, but probably only for themselves
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Post by Sighthound Fan on Dec 18, 2005 20:52:05 GMT
Fair point
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Post by Johnny on Dec 19, 2005 18:48:12 GMT
Well, we're on to a very emotive subject here, and I'll just add my thoughts.
I don't have any experience with the Greyhound Racing Industry, but I know that there are responsible owners, but I also know that there are those in the sport who care nothing for the dogs they own.
It's up to the greyhound racing industry to have a strict code of practice when it comes to cruelty in it's sport, and it is up to them to ensure that their memb.ers act responsibly towards their dogs. If the industry is aware of mispractice going on, and does nothing to address unnecessary cruelty - then they should not be surprised when the whole of their sport is tarred with the same brush, and branded as a "cruel" sport.
If I was aware of any of our memb.ers treating their dogs in the way those poor wretched creatures were treated in those photographs - they would have no place in our club, because they would bring disgust and shame on both the club's image, and (more importantly) - the decent, caring gery owners we have in our midsts. The greyhound industry needs to face up to it's own demons, and then do something about it. If they are aware of memb.ers who are being cruel to their dogs - they should remove them, and prevent them from having the opportunity of racing their dogs.
I also believe that deliberate cruelty to animals should carry harsher penalties and prison sentences - if cruelty is proven. It makes me shudder to see pictures of mutilated greyhounds, and there's two things that go through my mind: 1. If anyone can do that to a dog - what on earth could they do to a child, or another human being if they were weaker than themselves?, and 2. Didn't our forefathers fight a war against people like that? People who have no second thought when it comes to inflicting pain and suffering on others are no better than the prison camp guards in the concentration camps, because they have become "desensitised" to the suffering they inflict!
As chairman of this club I uphold that we do not take a "political stance" when it comes to the racing industry. As I have said - I am aware that there are responsible owners and trainers, who think a lot of their dogs. But deliberate cruelty is something quite different. Whether it be to a dog, cat, horse, child, or another human being - I just believe that deliberate cruelty is totally unacceptable.
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Post by Sighthound Fan on Dec 20, 2005 13:23:54 GMT
I am also aware of owners who are responsible with their dogs, but I belive that unless a compleate ban on Greyhound racing is bought into place, cruelty like this will continue for years to come. I also belive that even the responsible owners who rehome their dogs are at fault, why race the dog in the first place if you knew you were going to have to get rid of it afterwards? There aren't enough homes for Greyhounds and thousands are being put down every year because no one wants them
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Post by Johnny on Dec 21, 2005 5:56:06 GMT
I agree with the angle from where you are coming. I do not personally attend or support greyhound racing, but I believe in approaching things in a sensible manner. I think we have to be very careful before we start banning things because of the opinions we have on a subject. That's a very real problem in society today - there's far too many rules and regulations controlling what we can or can't do.
On the face of it - we see abused greyhounds, and we link that to greyhound racing. But, if all the racing stopped tomorrow - there would still be cruelty and mistreatment of dogs. Greyhounds are not the only dogs that suffer at the hands of us humans. Cruelty to animals extends throughout our society - this is why the RSPCA was established. The racing industry is not responsible for all dog cruelty, but as we know, some cases of cruelty does happen amongst it's ranks. I believe it's important to seperate the issues, not because I'm defending anyone's position, but because I'm trying to look at the problem in it's most basic, seperate forms. That's the best way to avoid muddled thinking on an issue, and to arrive at a result that is both workable and fair to all concerned.
Cruelty towards animals is totally unacceptable in today's society. This is because it's totally avoidable, and completely uneccesary. As I said - it's really down to the greyhound racing industry to get there act together, and prove themselves a responsible organisation. Alongside that - our laws should be adequate to punish those who inflict unnecessary suffering on animals - whether that be to dogs, cats or even wild animals.
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Post by Tuesday's Rose on Dec 21, 2005 7:00:24 GMT
I don't believe animals should be used for sport full stop. Greyhound racing should be banned. I believe there will always be crulity out there that is the way of the world. However i know from experience from when me and stuart looked for our first dog how many greyhounds are in homes, and some are put down, abondoned and in somecases killed in some awful way. I know there are people out there who race there dogs and then do care for them, and that's nice, but that is in the minority. Even when we brought sophie, I really liked the mum as well and the guy said she had pups because she couldn't race anymore due to injury and when the pups had gone he was going to sell her. Now to me there is a person just using dogs to make his money and not wanting to look after the dog afterwards. Some people may think why buy from some one like that, but at the end of the day i believe sophie, and harry although are probably to slow and lazy to race , are two of the lucky ones. When i Look back on when we got sophie, i think and i know mark and sharon have wondered the same thing, what has happend to The other pups? I would put money on the fact that at least a couple are in a home, or have been rehomed or something of that nature. There are probably two many rules and regulations when looking into banning it.. and i can't see it ever happening, but something does need to be done. It's great what the club did in raising funds for the cause that we did. But owners who race their dogs and then don't want them when there finished should be made to pay towards some of the after care. It's not a fair thing to have some dogs in a home and threatened in some cases with being put down because there isn't the money or because of behaviorial problams resulting from that life style, when the people that put them there are off down the track doing the same thing with a new dog. A line has to be drawn somewhere.
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Post by Sighthound Fan on Dec 21, 2005 13:10:33 GMT
I agree totally, I wonder what did eventually happen to Sophie and Harry's mum. They're both georgious dogs, I bet she was too. Do you not think that there will be much less Greyhounds in the world to be abused if racing was banned though Johnny?
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Post by Tuesday's Rose on Dec 21, 2005 19:55:35 GMT
Sophie's mum looked like sophie she was beautiful, the reason why we didn't go for her was because we had a rescued greyhound before and she couldn't be left at all even for short periods of time.. we had a dog behaviourist and trainers ect.. but in the end she ended up at the place who orignally had her. Basically she was rehomed by this chap who cares for greyhounds, he rehomed her but told the owners to bring her back if it din't work out. Of course they didn't and we ended up getting her from a different home. He was really happy to have her back and the chap said she could live out her days there. But the experience upst us cause we didn't want to part with her. we didn't think we would ever be able to get a greyhound puppy so when we saw sophie we knew she was coming home with us. I'd like to think that sophie's and harry's mum is still about
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Post by Stuart on Dec 21, 2005 20:25:08 GMT
Firstly, as the Administrator of this board, I welcome people's veiws and opinions and I wont ever stop that (unless they are offensive or illigal!!), but I want to make it clear that any posts on this board are in no way the "general" view of The Broadlnad Greyhound & Whippet Club. Most of us are mem.bers of that club, but the "Gery Board" is a forum for anyone to post on and your views and opinions are always welcome. ps... Its good to have a debate going, and after my dinner I will be rambling too!
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Post by Johnny on Dec 21, 2005 20:59:00 GMT
I agree totally, I wonder what did eventually happen to Sophie and Harry's mum. They're both georgious dogs, I bet she was too. Do you not think that there will be much less Greyhounds in the world to be abused if racing was banned though Johnny? You've asked me a straight-forward question, so I'll give you my personal answer: Yes, I agree with you that there would be less greyhounds in the predicament they are in - if there were no greyhound racing. If there were no racing - there would not be the unnecessary putting to sleep of several thousand healthy greyhounds each year. That's an appalling fact, and a fact that more people should be aware of. But, under present UK law greyhound racing is a legitimate "sport" in the UK. Everyone has their right to their opinion, and you will find that the debate surrounding whether racing dogs is cruel or not - can have counter-arguments put from both extremes of the divide - both with valid points. The way I look at it - is that there is a need to seperate the known (proveable cruelty) - from the debate on whether it is cruel to race dogs. When you see emancipated dogs, with ears cut off, and senselessly being mistreated - then the people carrying out such crimes should be punished appropriately under UK law, and those sentences should be enough to act as a detterent in the future. We may have (or could have in the future) - memb.ers of our club who either agree with, or support greyhound racing. Although I do not support the sport personally, I think it's important to judge people on the way they treat their dogs - not necessarily for what their beliefs are. We have to be careful when it comes to banning certain things we personally dissaprove of - cos sometimes (as in the situation Kitty & I face with selling WW2 items to people in European countries), a good idea (eg-banning items with nazi symbols on), can often extend to insanity - eg: where we can't sell a harmless bag used for carrying a gas mask! We have to be so careful when it comes to changing things - cos the repercussions seem to be endless, and in today's society - a good idea usually ends up having a nasty twist in it's tail which often comes back to haunt us. PS - I think it's great that people are debating things on this board. It's good to debate subjects, as it gets the old grey matter working!
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Post by Sighthound Fan on Dec 22, 2005 16:43:05 GMT
Yes I understand people do support it and still like the dogs and maybe have some themselves. I do however think it is a totally un-necessery sport. Retired Greyhounds (even the well treated ones) come into the rescue center I work at and they can have all kinds of behavioural problems, and if not mental ones, they have physical scars as a result from injuries encountered on the track. These dogs live outside in a kennel and are not properly socialised. Greyhounds need love and attention...not to mention a warm bed by the fire!
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Post by Sara on Dec 26, 2005 2:22:57 GMT
Yes I understand people do support it and still like the dogs and maybe have some themselves. I do however think it is a totally un-necessery sport. Retired Greyhounds (even the well treated ones) come into the rescue center I work at and they can have all kinds of behavioural problems, and if not mental ones, they have physical scars as a result from injuries encountered on the track. These dogs live outside in a kennel and are not properly socialised. Greyhounds need love and attention...not to mention a warm bed by the fire! Well that would be an ideal world wouldn't it? Every greyhound with their own fire to lay by, we dont have a fire so the sofa will have to do . Just to put another angle on it here though, dont you think the dogs might actually enjoy racing? Have you seen them when they are getting ready for the race? So eager to go, they love it! And what about sportsmen & women? They have injuries too and nobody is 'making' them play or compete. The unnecessary cruelty however is a different matter and is completely out of order to say the least! If the of racing dogs is banned you will only force it underground where matters could become much much worse.
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Post by Sighthound Fan on Dec 26, 2005 14:01:23 GMT
I see what you meen about them enjoying racing because I'm sure for the few seconds they are in the race they do enjoy it, but do they then enjoy years of neglegt and suffering, to then be dumped in a rescue center where they become very stressed and poorly, or worse? Also circular tracks put a great deal of strain on the dogs inner legs, causing them great amounts of pain later on in life. The racing itself isn't do bad, it's what it causes that is so bad.
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Post by Sara on Dec 28, 2005 0:44:54 GMT
Yes, it's been mentioned before that the circular tracks aren't good, are unnatural and that a straight sprint is better for the dog. I wish they could cap the breeding worldwide or make ir a sport with no money involved - no betting or anything. too much sherry tonight guys...
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robbo
Junior Gery
silver race dreamer
Posts: 71
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Post by robbo on Dec 28, 2005 18:59:54 GMT
Hmm, Katey and I seem to have started off quite a debate. Just got back home after Christmas with family, hence my lack of contributions this week. I have to hold my hand up and say I really enjoy watching racing . Standing by the traps you get an awesome display of power as they burst out. Apparently Tel used to really 'ping the lids' as they say and was into the first corner in the lead as a result. Greys have been bred for centuries as sighthounds to chase, so it's in their nature to a greater or lesser extent. If it's greater, they become good racers, if it's lesser, they become pets hopefully. All the dogs I have seen racing seem to enjoy it. They wag their tails and bark before the race, which I take as excitement/enjoyment. The cruelty of some should not be used as a reason to stop the enjoyment of others. If that were so, none of us would have pets. Bear in mind, it's in the trainers interest to have a fit and healthy dog. There are vets who inspect the kennels on a regular basis and check the dogs over at the track. All dogs are routinely vaccinated at the track - I have all Tel's certification for his career. Dog's weight is checked at every meeting - it must be within 1kg of the previous race weight. the problem really seems to be with the end of the dog's career and perhaps this is the area that needs closer monitoring as well as funding. A lot of money circulates in dog racing - Tel could have fetched £5000+ at his peak (he's priceless now!) - betting, buying and selling dogs etc. A tax of some sort on all of this could provide regular funding to help with rehoming. OR, the Government could see some sense in a compromise and allow coursing BUT with muzzled dogs - the hare would get away then 'cos that's what they're built to do in the wild. This could stop some injuries from tight cornering always in the same direction. Oh dear, I'll fall off my soapbox in a minute...... I'll get my coat
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Post by Sighthound Fan on Dec 31, 2005 0:32:13 GMT
I know that during the dogs raceing coureer they are well looked after as, like you say, it is in the intrest of the trainer to have a fit and healthy dog, but in my opinion, unless racing is banned altogether you will always get the poor dogs who are abused at the end of it
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Post by Stuart on Dec 31, 2005 0:54:02 GMT
As Sara says I don't think banning Greyhound Racing will help Greyhounds, if anything it will make things worse!
Imagine if there was nobody regulating racing at all if it went underground, then a lot more Greyhounds would be badly treated and killed. There would be nobody to do what little is done at the moment.
What we need is for the government or whoever makes the decisions to inforce some sort of "pension scheme" for Greyhounds, whereby the owners and trainers have to pay into a fund to make sure that when the Gery retires it has money there to pay for its welfare whilst it is being looked after for re-homing. (Howie's suggestion by the way!).
Also if they tightened up laws around greyhound racing, it may deter the bad trainers and owners from taking part.
Lets be sensible, they are never gonna ban Greyhound racing, there is too much money involved (especially for the government, ie taxes). I think the best we can hope for is tougher penalties for dog abusers and better controls over what happens after racing.
The ONE and ONLY good thing about Greyhound racing is that if there were no Greyhound racing NONE of us would have our Gery's and thats a FACT!
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Post by Sighthound Fan on Dec 31, 2005 1:00:22 GMT
Actually my Lenny was abandoned by gypsies...but that's beside the point. I do think the 'pention scheme' is a very good idea, and I see what you mean about it going underground. At the end of the day, we could sit and talk about it for years but something actually has to be done about it, whatever it is, it has to be better than what goes on now
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Post by Stuart on Dec 31, 2005 1:20:35 GMT
Actually my Lenny was abandoned by gypsies...but that's beside the point. Ah, but somewhere along the line Lenny was either bought from a trainer or his mum was a racer etc etc! I think its good to debate and its good to get a few people involved!... This thread has gone a bit off topic from a Hello thread though!
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Post by Sighthound Fan on Dec 31, 2005 1:21:20 GMT
. Yes it has!
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